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Dmanlamius IP address: Logged Posts: Too Many!!!
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Thanks for getting me into his stuff whoever it was (Herb? Gez?) |
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| Spike IP address: Logged Posts: 2787
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He's got a number of videos out, hasn't he? Can't remember his name. I'd like to add him to my list of favourites. |
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| Dmanlamius IP address: Logged Posts: Too Many!!!
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Yea, dude. If you double click on the video, it opens it up in youtube. There you can see his name (Pat Condell) and favourite him, etc.
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| Spike IP address: Logged Posts: 2787
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D'oh! I didn't know that.
Done now. |
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| herbivore IP address: Logged Posts: 6560
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I like the opening line on his web site...I'll put it on Quote O.T.D. |
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| Dmanlamius IP address: Logged Posts: Too Many!!!
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Lol, that is a classic! Pat is brilliant. But i'm worried for him. The religious fanatics are already threatening him with violence, which is pretty much proving a lot of what he says. If you look at his youtube videos, you'll see it all. It sucks. |
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| mtnluvver IP address: Logged Posts: 5992
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OH MY GOD. a great part of me was hoping a suicide bomber would ram in to the side of his house during that video. i haven't seen any of this guys other videos so i can't tell yet what degree of hate i have for that man, but from that video i wanted to scream at him from about a minute and a half in. 1) belief in something else, the divine, higher forces, have been part of every society that has ever been recorded but no, just because this guy things it's stupid it should be wiped off the face of the earth and out of history? 2) having faith and being controlled by organised religion are two very different things. there is absolutely no reason for anyone to stop having faith! 3) anyone who is THAT SURE that they just get the world, get this whole fucked up existence, with no doubt or grey area what so ever, is obviously a fool.
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| herbivore IP address: Logged Posts: 6560
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If a suicide bomber was to ram into his house,all that would prove is how correct Mr Condell was in the first place. Belief in 'higher forces' and gods has been around for a long time but forcing these beliefs on others is what is stupid or more to the point us allowing it is stupid. ( The Romans even accepted the gods of their enemies as true gods, and we know how the Romans treated their enemies). Faith and organised religion go hand in hand. If religion was unorganised how would anyone know what to have faith in. You seem to assume that people automatically believe in god. I don't think - in modern times - that any sane person would decide that there was a god without the vaguest of hints from an organised religion. I'm sure that I am right but then I could be a fool. You should watch his other 41 videos. Edited: herbivore - Mon 30 Jun 2008 (7:20PM) |
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| bro IP address: Logged Posts: 1361
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I went on his website and, some of the stuff being posted posted is crazy. Death theats, threats of rape... The man has an opion, is articulate and does not suck up to any organised religion - and that scares some people. It liberates others. Wishing a suicide bomber ram his house or wanting ro scream at him for a minute and a half - damn, that is pathetic. If you have a belief then be prepare to argue for it, Personally, I don't care what anyone believes. I really don't. Just don't expect me to accept it. And if we, in Britain, can't discuss this sort of thing without all this hysteria - then I don't know. Me, I'd probably move to Montana.
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Dud IP address: Logged Posts: 1861
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1) belief in something else, the divine, higher forces, have been part of every society that has ever been recorded Only primitive societies. Because something has happened for a long time gives it no legitimacy! People persecuted Galileo - geddit? Science and knowledge allows civilised societies to throw off the false mantles of their ancestors. 2) having faith and being controlled by organised religion are two very different things. there is absolutely no reason for anyone to stop having faith! There is no difference *at all* just because people fool themselves by calling their Gods by a different name and changing the rituals slightly, it still doesn't change the basic concept - belief in something supernatural yet for which is absolutely no evidence at all. Insecure people look for magic (or magik - it's exactly the same), they look for specialist knowledge, they look for meaning, comfort; they form themselves into sects, religions, cults, cabals, covens - and reinforce their misguided belief systems, each one thinking they have the answer, the others are wrong or misguided; that their form of delusion is more worthy. Faith is defence of the undefensible - and as such - there is absolutely *every* reason to stop having faith.
3) anyone who is THAT SURE that hey just get the world, get this whole fucked up existence, with no doubt or grey area what so ever, is obviously a fool. The fool is the person who puts unwarranted weight to theories that don't deserve it.
Pat Condell is a hero in my eyes for fighting the biggest evil man has ever created.
Edited: Dud - Mon 30 Jun 2008 (8:38PM) |
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| mtnluvver IP address: Logged Posts: 5992
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the inflection on my first sentence was wrong, the would should have been in capitals. to make the assumption that everyone who has faith/even a little doubt that something more is out there is a fundamentalist who's beliefs/ideas should be crushed is just plain wrong. i'm not going to explain my beliefs to you because it's personal. i am connected to neo-paganism and one of the key aspects is that no one man can speak for it. there is no one "in charge" who can tell you what to do, i do not live in fear and am specifically advised not to condemn others for their beliefs or convert them. i just don't understand in a context as general as religion/science how someone can be SO certain, and be so disreguarding of everyone else's ideas. and just out of my own curiousity, do you all genuinely think that if there was no religion, these people wouldn't find something else to control and other ways to commit these acts? what would happen to morality? do you think people are naturally "good" enough for self-government? i am more than anything in awe, maybe even a little jealous, that you guys have all the answers to these questions, because most things are such a grey area to me here. |
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| herbivore IP address: Logged Posts: 6560
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Who told you that there is no one "in charge" who can tell you what to do? Religion didn't invent morality nor has it any right to claim so. If humans didn't behave in a moral manner we would have died out as a species before we'd even invented the stone tool.
Edited: herbivore - Mon 30 Jun 2008 (9:50PM) |
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| bro IP address: Logged Posts: 1361
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Who advised you "not to condemn others for their beliefs or convert them." If there is no-one in charge? I'm not questioning you're belief but the 'structure' of your religion. And why does morality come from religion - why not the other way round? Self government? mmmm... for the most part people do govern themselves. It's when people break the law/rules/morality when people have issues. |
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| Dud IP address: Logged Posts: 1861
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everyone who has faith/even a little doubt that something more is out there is a fundamentalist who's beliefs/ideas should be crushed is just plain wrong. What mixed up belief is it that says anyone is entitled to believe what they want, without regards to tthe evidence or the harm it does. "... am specifically advised" The epitome of why religion is so evil - yes that include "neo-pagamism" for it is a religion! Think for your self! i just don't understand in a context as general as religion/science how someone can be SO certain, and be so disreguarding of everyone else's ideas. It's not a case of being "so certain", again this is the religious's way of inverting fact. It's discernment, it's the rejection of that for which there is absolutely no evidence. Because I say I believe in the Potato King, doesn't make it right, and it's the repsonsibility of those with intelligence to reject unsubstantiated theories (I use the word theories in the losest possible sense). and just out of my own curiousity, do you all genuinely think that if there was no religion, these people wouldn't find something else to control and other ways to commit these acts? So the truth is of no importance to you, just methods of social control? what would happen to morality? do you think people are naturally "good" enough for self-government? If you need a rule book to tell you what is moral and what is not, then that is not morality, that's subservience. Morality is understanding why you should act in a certain way, not following orders.
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| mtnluvver IP address: Logged Posts: 5992
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argh does anyone else find it absurdly annoying when someone copy/pastes your post & then picks it apart? it must be really difficult to understand having beliefs outside of current science if you have none. i've never going to be greatly articulate in this argument because i just am not sure about anything here, but that's my point really. however, i do think that everyone here who is saying anyone who has those beliefs or is even open to the possibility of them, causes harm doesn't have a leg to stand on. and no "the truth" about the world, whatever that is, i really don't think it's that important. if somehow the Church, etc. could go about their business in a harmless way, what does it matter if they want to get through this life believing in a little more than we see? and why does it personally offend you that they would want to? not that i have to make this defence, but when i'm saying these things, i'm not talking about myself. i do believe in science and in many ways the magick etc in paganism is just powerful science. basically, to sum up, i just think that this one bloke saying that a belief in anything outside of current science should be, in short, illegal is really strange and a form of social control equal to that of the vatican. and it's just plain rude to say that anyone who is open to the possibility of their being more to this existence makes you stupid. but nevertheless im still going to check out at some point today a couple of his other videos. |
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| Dud IP address: Logged Posts: 1861
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I don't condone making stupidity illegal in anyway! |
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Icon IP address: Logged Posts: 1954
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Dud, I very much like the fact that you plow a fair amount of effort into your posts but there is so much wrong with the way you go about things and the 'fact' aspect of what you choose to believe that I fear we may lock horns at some point soon and that's not good for anyone. Can't you at least me reasonable in your approach without being so judgemental or self righteous. Just an idea like and I'm open to being wrong. |
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| Dud IP address: Logged Posts: 1861
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and in many ways the magick etc in paganism is just powerful science. So let it be tested! Give us the data. Lay out the theories to be scrutinised. (Or you could keep then in a secret coven). |
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| Dud IP address: Logged Posts: 1861
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Because you say something often enough doesn't make it right. You missed the whole concept of burden of proof. NOT ALL THINGS ARE EQUALLY LIKELY. |
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| Dmanlamius IP address: Logged Posts: Too Many!!!
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And once you have given us the data, I suffest you submit that data to: Because you can make a million dollars from it!
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