 |
 |
|
 | ||
 |
||
|
|
|
|
| ||
|
||
|
|||
| Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 > | |||
LeeW IP address: Logged Posts: 5319
|
Is atheism a faith? Is it religion? Faith is something you believe to be true, without needing proof. Religion is the set of rules that you choose to live by. Your choice of rule book is dictated by your faith. So in my case, yes. On both counts. |
||
Dud IP address: Logged Posts: 1844
|
Is atheism a faith? Only if not supporting any football team is a team. Not drinking is your tipple. Not playing sport is your sport ... It's a completely illogical pedicate. |
||
| LeeW IP address: Logged Posts: 5319
|
I think that's wrong. If Aetheism is to not believe in a creator, then one can believe that to be true without needing proof. Therefore, one can have faith in that. Faith is not to believe in something specific, ie a creator, just to believe that (whatever it is) is true. Edited: LeeW - Wed 4 Jun 2008 (3:26PM) |
||
| Dud IP address: Logged Posts: 1844
|
Your statments are wrong on so many counts Faith is something you believe to be true, without needing proof. No, this is gulability, you equate faith with religion, another fundamental leccuna. "Believers" have spent many centuries trying to prove the existence of God - the ontological proof, the epistemological proof, the theo-cosmological proof have for all intents and purposes been dismissed by any serious philosopher since Kant demolished them - only those living in the ignorance of, for example the RC Church believe them. Religion is the set of rules that you choose to live by. Your choice of rule book is dictated by your faith. Completely wrong again. You have put the cart before the horse. The rules that you chose to live your life by are your ethos. Religion can influence (for the worse in nearly all material cases) ones ethos but that is all. I may choose to live my life by throwing a dice or reading tea-leaves. The implication, again wrong, is that there is some good, some inherent morality that comes from religion.
It is sloppy , erroneous and ignorant (I don't mean this as an insult, I'm using the word literally rather than as a slur) thinking that epitomise (one of the many reasons) why religion is so detrimental to the human condition. |
||
| Dud IP address: Logged Posts: 1844
|
If Aetheism is to not believe in a creator, then one can believe that to be true without needing proof. Therefore, one can have faith in that. This is the gravest mistake you have posted so far. It it philosophically wrong, pure and simple. I don't believe in Father Christmas and it is up to those who say he does exist to prove otherwise AND NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND! In the spirit of Locke, one should only ascribe a faith in something in realtion to its probabilty.
|
||
| LeeW IP address: Logged Posts: 5319
|
That's interesting. No offence taken Dud! I don't believe in Father Christmas and it is up to those who say he does exist to prove otherwise AND NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND! But people who have faith in a creator cannot prove anything. Nor do they require proof. In the spirit of Locke, one should only ascribe a faith in something in realtion to its probabilty. Well to someone who believes in a creator for example, it's entirely probable. However, to me, it's bordering on the ridiculous. But I believe I am right. I also believe it's probable, based on my observations, thinking and reasoning. Or how could I believe it to be true? Therefore I have faith. |
||
| Dud IP address: Logged Posts: 1844
|
Faith is a cop out, and a total one at that. You only believe because of the memetic process that passed your religion (which is purely an accident of birth) from generation to generation. Peter Sutcliffe "believed" God had told hime to kill women. People who have taken acid "believed" they could fly. You should no more accept your "faith" than accept their erroneous ones. You need to read Russell and Dawkins and get some "de-churching" in you :)
[Edited due to divine intervention] Edited: Dud - Wed 4 Jun 2008 (3:49PM) |
||
| Dud IP address: Logged Posts: 1844
|
You are using "proof by personal revalation" - and this is a thoroughly bad thing to do. If you believe, by reasoned argument in a theist creator then enumerate your reasons rather than rely on the sterile argument of "I believe, I just do, therefore it must be so". c.f. I believe in the Potato King, therefore he exists! |
||
| LeeW IP address: Logged Posts: 5319
|
You are using "proof by personal revalation" - and this is a thoroughly bad thing to do. If you believe, by reasoned argument in a theist creator then enumerate your reasons rather than rely on the sterile argument of "I believe, I just do, therefore it must be so". Do people who believe completely and utterly in a god do the same as me? I would say so. Which is kind of my point. That's what faith is. Incidently, a very good friend of mine had a personal revelation, which was proof enough for him. |
||
| DARKSTONE IP address: Logged Posts: Too Many!!!
|
Fuck Me Sideways ! You have both made me go boss eyed reading this ! All Ya Need Is Love Baby !!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
||
| herbivore IP address: Logged Posts: 6550
|
Atheism is a religion in the same way that 'OFF' is a TV channel. |
||
| onion IP address: Logged Posts: 4088
|
That's very good, that. I'm gonna have to remember it. Otherwise I'll forget it. |
||
withnail IP address: Logged Posts: 25
|
 I have a brain that tells me right from wrong ...................its all a bit cultish !!! |
||
| SideshowGez IP address: Logged Posts: Too Many!!!
|
LOL very true herb. Mind you.... I guess it depends how strongly to believe there is no god? If you are an Atheist that doesn't belive in god purely because it hasn't been proved as yet that's fair enough. If you are blinkered and believing that there isn't one end of subject you're probably as closed minded much like the religious folk. I'd like to think that there's a God. I was brought up by religious parents so that's probably some brain washing there. I like to keep an open mind as it was hard to have one as a kid. |
||
| Dud IP address: Logged Posts: 1844
|
You're confusing atheism and agnosticism |
||
| Dud IP address: Logged Posts: 1844
|
Do people who believe completely and utterly in a god do the same as me? I would say so. I'm sorry, but what on earth has that to do with truth? There's a lot of German OAPs wondering around going "I don't know what came over me", there are quite a few people that truly beleve that killing Christians means they go to heaven and get 12 virgins of their very own. Weight of numbers makes nothing true other than the ability for mass delusion and stupdity! Incidently, a very good friend of mine had a personal revelation, which was proof enough for him. Umm, get with the program - why was his revelation any truer than Peter Sutcliffes? Because he believes it does make him right, people who have "revelations" only ever have them within the confines of ther cultural memes and some research shows that certain "revalations" correlate with epilepsy.. Edited: Dud - Wed 4 Jun 2008 (8:37PM) |
||
| johnehall IP address: Logged Posts: 395
|
Gawd, give me strength!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
||
| LeeW IP address: Logged Posts: 5319
|
No, agnosticism is not being entirely sure. Dud, you've actually agreed with me in a way, and I with you, but you don't see it. Truth? Truth requires proof. Otherwise it's just a very strong opinion, or FAITH. Therefore anyone who believes something without them needing (or wanting it proved to them more like), has faith that it's true. That's plain logic. Yes people do blow themselves up for 12 virgins in heaven. Actually it's more like 75. The point is they do it for their faith in something. They have faith that the promise of eternal life is true. They have to. No one can prove it to them. No one has proved anything to them. I'm simply saying that an Aetheist can be no more sure of the truth (in the sense of it actually being proved black or white) than a christian, muslim, jew, hindu, budhist or jedi. But to them it is true. But they have faith that they are following the right path. Why can't an aetheist say the same about their chosen path? Why can't they claim to have faith that they have made the right decision? Why can't they refer to the way they live their life as a consequence of that choice and faith be their "religion"? You can still be a decent person, without a god telling you to do so. Does religion have to be to follow a set of principles set out by a god, who's existence is something of an enigma? Or can an individual decide for themself that they are not going to steel, kill, covert their neighbours ox etc etc? I think they can. Umm, get with the program - why was his revelation any truer than Peter Sutcliffes? Because he believes it does make him right, people who have "revelations" only ever have them within the confines of ther cultural memes and some research shows that certain "revalations" correlate with epilepsy.. Well yes. That's also kind of my whole point. Same for anyone who says "God made me do it". So, can aetheism be a faith? If you can argue that genocide can, I won't let you take aetheism away from me. Edited: LeeW - Wed 4 Jun 2008 (9:51PM) |
||
| DARKSTONE IP address: Logged Posts: Too Many!!!
|
God....................................................................Is a DJ Cue Music ......................................................... |
||
cakewalk IP address: Logged Posts: 359
|
Strangely, my cousin got married in an 'agnostic' church about 10 years ago. Somewhere in London. She goes to it every Sunday morning and they sit through the the equivalent of a sermon which estolls the virtues of living a moral life with no reference to religion. Apparently they sing the equivalent of hymns - ie fairly famous songs from the charts with an inspirational base and do some kind of mass meditation, again with no religious connotations. They held a naming ceremony there when her daughter was born. Seems to me that, even when people don't want to commit to a faith, some still feel the need to commit to 'something'. Jeez, look at the growth of spritualists.... |
||
| Discussion > General Chat > Atheism | |||
| Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 > | |||
|
© Mr Gig 2002 - 2008 |
